My color page:)

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My color page:)

Post  Admin on Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:11 pm

Ok..I have decided to add little descriptions in each section of the colors on my color page. I have a pretty good start, but seriously need help with the blue's/issy section and any correction in the other color's would be appreciated. I haven't published it yet because it isn't finished, but I will post it here and any mistakes you see PLEASE correct or anything you see that can be added, please offer up. I know the descriptions may seem a bit unprofessional, but I tried to describe them so that someone with NO understanding would be able to understand, lol...
I do have a few questions about a few things:
1) is it possible to get a choc based red (liver nosed) pup out of two black nosed parents if they both carry chocolate?
2) Can black/tan male and female pairings only produce black/tan's? can they also produce choc/tan's if they both carry for it?
3) I need an explaination between 'ee' and 'EE'.
4) I need help describing the sable and wildboar as well

Here is what I have so far for each color description, add what you want or know and correct me on anything I have that is wrong. I WON'T be offeded:) I want to get it right:) I also need more pics, so if you want please go on and see what I have and what would benefit. I am lacking wire pics Dana & Claire (hint hint).

Black and tan's/creams:
-nothing yet

Red's:
- Red is a very dominant color.
- Ideally a red dachshund should have a dark black nose, nails and eyeliner.
- Dachshunds with a red coat that have liver colored noses or self colored noses (brownish in color) are still reds and should be labeled as reds NOT chocolates.
- Red dachshunds can have heavy shading (black shading), they are still considered reds, NOT sables. True sables are only found in longhaired dachshunds and have atleast one sable parent. They can appear black and tan from a distance and the hairs are 'banded' from the root.
- It is very common for reds to be born with points. They will fade over time. Remember that black nose means red, so if points are apparent at birth and a black nose is also apparent, the points will fade and the dachshund should be labeled as a red NOT chocolate.
- Red's are very common in red x cream matings, and are commonly mistaked for being a cream. Just remember both sides have to carry for cream and the pup in question should not have any red hint or hue whatsoever on their coat to be labeled as a cream. Most often a red pup will have a dark stripe down it's back and are born red or light colored. Creams are born dark husky gray or black at birth.

Chocolate & tan's/creams:
- Chocolate/tan's, Chocolate/cream's and Solid Chocolate's have chocolate colored noses and chocolate coats, there should not be any red tint or hue whatsoever to their coats.
- Dachshunds with a red coat that have chocolate or liver colored noses are considered chocolate based REDS or reds with self colored noses and should be labeled as reds NOT chocolates.
- Both parents either have to BE or carry for chocolate to produce a chocolate offspring. Chocolate is a color that is carried by both sides of the sire & dam's lines and can only be produced when both carry for the color or are in fact chocolate themselves.
- A chocolate dachshund bred to a chocolate carrier can produce chocolates, in red's that carry for chocolate it is possible to get liver colored noses (or self colored noses) when bred with another chocolate carrier. They will have a red coat instead of chocolate and will have chocolate colored noses or liver colored noses (see above reference to REDS)
- One parent has to be a solid color to produce a solid offspring.
- Ideally the chocolate pigment and coat color should be very dark chocolate.
- Two chocolate based or chocolate dachshunds bred together will result in a litter of ALL chocolate based/colored dachshunds. It is IMPOSSIBLE to get a black nosed pup out of a chocolate sire and dam.
- Chocolate dachshunds do NOT have black noses.

Isabella/tan's & Blue/tan's:
-nothing yet and I REALLY have no knowledge in this area..

Wild boar & Sables
- Wildboar is only represented in the wirecoat & smooth coat dachshunds.
- Sable is only represented in the longhaired dachshunds.
- One or both parents have to be a wildboar or sable for a wildboar or sable offspring to occur, with that being said, it is common (IMO) to find wildboar in wire coats on occassion when neither parent is a wildboar. This could mean that there is a such term as 'hidden' wildboar.
- Smooth coat dachshunds cannot be SABLE and are marked incorrectly when they are labeled as such.

Cream's & Shaded creams:
- Creams & shaded creams do not have any red hint or red hue whatsoever to their coats. If any red is apparent at all, the dachshund in question should be labeled as a red.
- Both parents of creams should either be cream themselves or carry for cream to produce a cream offspring.
- Creams are born a dark husky gray or can appear black at birth and will lighten as they age. They may still have shading, but the points will get lighter with age.
-Chocolate BASED creams have a chocolate shaded nose with a cream coat.
- Chocolate SHADED creams have a chocolate based nose, but have a chocolate shaded hue or chocolate tint to their coats.
- Creams with dark black pigment on nose, nails and eyeliner is ideally the correct representation of the cream dachshund.



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Re: My color page:)

Post  Admin on Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:11 pm

I wanted to add that I did not mention nails in each of the colors yet because I am not for certain of exactly what color they are supposed to be except cream, I know they are supposed to be black and can be lighter if they carry chocolate:) I didn't specify 'ee' or 'EE' in the red or cream section because I have no idea how to explain it and need help describing it (color wise, not genetically)

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Re: My color page:)

Post  Proud Lake Dachshunds on Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:20 pm

1) is it possible to get a choc based red (liver nosed) pup out of two black nosed parents if they both carry chocolate?
Yes, but one of the parents would have to be non-pointed, OR both parents would have to carry e.2) Can black/tan male and female pairings only produce black/tan's? can they also produce choc/tan's if they both carry for it?
They can only produce pointed offspring unless they both carry for e. If they carry for cream, chocolate, or dilute, you could get variations of any of those colors as well, but all would be pointed unless they are ee red pups.3) I need an explaination between 'ee' and 'EE'.
Easiest answer. EE is dominant, allowing all colors and patterns to show. If the dog is red, they will show any shading or pattern they were born with. If pointed, they will show their points and patterns. ee is recessive, masks all eumelanin, so all black, chocolate, blue or isabella coat hairs will be masked, only leaving the pheomelanin (red or cream) color behind in their coat. ee hides pattern, with the exception of piebald, so if the pup is dapple or brindle, it will not show in the coat.4) I need help describing the sable and wildboar as well
Sable and wild boar are properly patterns, not colors. In wires and smooths, the pattern is referred to as wild boar, and each individual hair is banded with different colors, similar to a squirrel. Sables are harder, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of agreement on the genetics behind it, despite Eridox's information. The hairs are banded, usually red at the base, and black at the tips, and most people agree that they look black and tan at a distance, but the faces are red with a distinctive widows peak.

As far as dilutes go, it's also recessive, on the D series. A dog that does not carry dilute is DD (dominant), a carrier is Dd, a dilute is dd. The D series dilute affects eumelanin, and does exactly what it sounds like. It dilutes the pigment in the coat so that a black dog (BB or Bb) turns a steel blue or grey color, including its nose and leather, and a chocolate dog (bb) turns a coffee-with-cream color. Dilutes are highly succeptible to Color Dilution Alopecia (CDA) and despite what people who sell dilutes tell you, nothing can prevent a dog with CDA from exhibiting this trait. They will lose their coats, often in patches, their ears tend to get raggedy looking or naked, and it can cause skin problems in addition to the coat issues. Puppies tend to have beautiful plush coats, and they often stay that way for a year, or even two, before the CDA takes affect. Reputable breeders don't generally breed for dilutes because of the issues caused, however, a lot of reputable breeders call black and tan dapples that APPEAR blue because of the diluting effect of the pattern blue dapples. They are not true dilutes and don't experience the coat issues seen in true dilutes.
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Re: My color page:)

Post  Admin on Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:41 pm

Thanks for the info on 'EE' and 'ee'..guess I should figure out how to explain the point system too?? I understand it, but find it hard to put into words for those who don't get it..how would I explain the colors as far as the nails, nose and such on the blue's and issy's? I don't breed for them so I don't know how to explain how they 'look' (not genetically bred).In other words, color on each at birth and nose color & nails on each and what you CAN'T get..I know that the sable and wildboar are patterns, but I wanted to seperate them from the other colors because people tend to mismark reds as sables and wildboars and tend to call smooths sables:) I see wildboar pie's, but I do not think I have ever seen any other pattern mixed with a sable. Is it possible? What colors are there in sable? What I mean is there just a red sable? I know somewhere someone mentioned a cream sable and I doubted that very much, but I kept quiet because of my lack of knowledge. Also, is there really such a thing as a Canadian Blue? isn't that just a blue? I heard all 'Canadian Blue's' are also dapples? Sorry for all the Q & A's..trying to think of everything I have heard so I can explain why and why not is it possible or true Very Happy

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Re: My color page:)

Post  Rhodach on Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:32 pm

You could mention that the True Creams can be traced back to ones produced in the 80's in the UK, they appearred as genetic flukes from shaded red parents and were all mini longs as they have remained here to this day.

I still see ee creams labelled as English Creams on US websites, it is not a recognised colour here, True Creams have black whiskers and eye lashes which ee do not which is the easiest and most obvious way of telling the difference without knowing genetics or the pedigree.
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Re: My color page:)

Post  Admin on Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:30 pm

by Rhodach on Sat 11 Feb 2012 - 19:32

You could mention that the True Creams can be traced back to ones produced in the 80's in the UK, they appearred as genetic flukes from shaded red parents and were all mini longs as they have remained here to this day.

I still see ee creams labelled as English Creams on US websites, it is not a recognised colour here, True Creams have black whiskers and eye lashes which ee do not which is the easiest and most obvious way of telling the difference without knowing genetics or the pedigree.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention about the whiskers..I will add that and the onfo about the heritage on the cream section as well.

I decided to go full force with the whole pattern and color description.. probably not gonna have many friends, as they may view most of it is based on my personal opinion stirpot ..



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Re: My color page:)

Post  Admin on Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:54 pm

Here is what the top will read..feel free to correct anything that isn't correct, for example I wasn't 100% certain about the harsh wire coat on the dachshund being the correct coat..Is the wire coat suppose to be harsh? I know it isn't supposed to be silky, but wasn't sure if it was called something else or had a different term. Anyway, check it out and point out any flaws:) :

There are three possible coats in dachshunds.
Long, Wire & Smooth coat. The wire coat can come in a harsh wire or even be bred in with longhair lines and produce a 'silky' wire. A harsh coat on a wire is the acceptable standard.
There are many colors & several patterns.
Black/tan's, Red's, Chocolate's, Blue's & Issy's and Creams are the basic colors.
Dapple pattern: One or both of the parents have to be dapple in order to produce a dapple pup. Double dapples can only produce dapple pups. The dapple pattern can be hidden (not visible to the eye) and is most common and mistaken in red's. The dapple pattern is NOT carried. Although some people breed dapple to dapple, it is not wise or socially acceptable. Most often it results in Double Dapples and carries a heavy risk of dangerous and life threatening issue's. Dapple x dapple pairings do not always result in double dapple's, but it can and therefore IMO should not be desired or encouraged in a breeding program. Double dapples usually are mostly white, but not always. They often have two blue eye's as well. Some dapple's and dapple pie's are mistaken for double dapple's due to the area of white and dapple spots. For this reason, dapple pie's are not socially acceptable, although they are highly desired and commonly bred in programs.
Brindle pattern: One or both parents have to be brindle in order to produce a brindle pup. Brindle is NOT carried. Brindle is like the dapple pattern, it also can be hidden.
Piebald pattern: One or both of the parents either have to be a piebald or carry for it in order to produce a piebald. Typically the white & color on a piebald should be 50/50 and evenly marked. A piebald will atleast have 4 white feet and white tipped tail and usually a white patch or mark down the chest. My opinion a 'tuxedo' piebald would be most desired and standard of the correct piebald. A piebald can have what is referred to as 'ticking', or as I call them, freckles:) The 'ticking' is usually the same color as the base color of the dachshund.
Sable's and Wildboars are basically the same pattern, but unlike the other patterns, they are specifically designated to certain coats. The Sable pattern for example, is only produced in the longhaired dachshunds. Wildboar is the term used when the pattern is present in the smooth & wire coat dachshunds. Sable (like dapple pie's) is one of the most commonly mismarked patterns when labeling a heavily shaded red. Most mark a heavily shaded red as a sable and commonly mark a heavy shaded red smooth as a sable as well.. Sable's are very dark, appearing almost black and tan from a distance and have a widow's peak (almost a mask appearance on the face). True sable's are very uncommon.
There are several different patterns that are commonly mixed.
Dapple's x Piebald's (nicknamed Dapple pie's), Brindle's x Dapple's (nicknamed Brapple's), Dapple x Dapple (usually producing DD's and is the most socially unacceptable in mixing patterns), Brindle x Piebald's (nicknamed Brindle Pie's) and they are probably the most acceptable patterns not frowned upon when mixing.
Wildboar's are also mixed with various patterns as well. I think the most common pattern it is mixed with would be Piebald, resulting in Wild boar Piebald Wire's or Wild boar piebald smooth coat's, they too seem to be acceptable and not frowned upon.
As far as the coats, many mix coats as well. The most desired is the pairing of the same coat when planning your litters.
When a longhair x longhair mating takes place, the resulting coats on the puppies in the litter will all be longhaired as well.
When a longhair x smooth coat is bred together, you can get a mix of longhair & smooth coats if the smooth coat dachshund carries for longhair.
When a longhair x wirehair are bred together, the result can be what is commonly referred to as a 'silky' wire, or soft wire coat dachshund...probably the most unacceptable of all coats, but surprisingly desired amongst pet owners and various breeders.
When a smooth coat x smooth coat are bred together, you can still get a variety of smooth & longhaired dachshunds if either or both sides carry for longhair. The same applies to the wire hair dachshunds, depending on what each side carries for, will determine what coats the resulting litter will have.
I suppose the different colors and mixing of patterns can be endless and many breeders mix and match without hesitation. It is always best to try to maintain the best structure and strive to produce the best quality of the dachshund standard and stick with the basics in your colors and patterns until you are more knowledgeable about the dachshund breed.
Here are a few of the various colors and patterns in the dachshund world. Enjoy:)


...and then my color sections begin with the descriptions in each. I did forget to mention the sizes in dachshunds bow that I think about it..gotta try to add that in somewhere...

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Re: My color page:)

Post  Proud Lake Dachshunds on Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:52 pm

In wires, a harsh, tight coat is correct. The fluffy, soft coats are incorrect, and silky wires (which are produced by a wire that carries long crossed with another dachshund who carries long.) are considered an abomination by anyone who cares about correct wirehaired dachshunds. You can't produce silky wires breeding just any wire to a long. The wire has to carry for long.

I wouldn't refer to the isabellas as "issies" if I were you. The breed standard refers to them as isabella or fawn-don't play into the nickname that makes it sound cute.

I wouldn't be concerned about socially acceptable with double dapples-it's a genuine health risk to resulting puppies to breed dapple to dapple, and potentially fatal, depending on how the deformities arise in the litter. Do your best to emphasize how dire the consequences can be since you're trying to educate.

As far as your earlier question about points. The best way that I had it explained to me was that points tell the dog where to STOP showing red, leaving the rest of the coat in it's "self color" with the exception of the specific areas that the points allow. People muck up that description by calling liver nosed reds dogs that have self colored noses-they do, but not in the sense they mean. Dogs don't have red noses, because the nose color comes from eumelanin, which is only black or brown (chocolate). Eumelanin can be diluted by the d series dilute genes, so that turns the coat and "leathers" (nose, nails, pads) the lighter shade of the dogs eumelanin color-black fades to blue, chocolate fades to isabella. Points are recessive, so both parents have to either be pointed, or carry points to produce it.
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Re: My color page:)

Post  rsepiphyte on Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:48 pm

Wonderful information contained in this topic! Thanks to all that participated. I have learned quite a few things i did not know about color and patterns. Good luck Jenn on your website color addition! Ruth
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Re: My color page:)

Post  Admin on Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:34 am

I actually do have issy listed as Isabella on my site..I just shortened it in my question;) I did need to know about the 'tight' harsh coat on the wire..I will correct that and the fact that the wire has to carry long. Thanks:)
The double dapple issue, I was QUITE surprised in searching a while back to find that there are show breeders who breed for double dapples Shocked ..I kind of was thinking usiing the term 'socially acceptable' would get the point across...I may use another word like taboo instead of abomination, lol..I really can't handle hate mail right now, rofl..
As far as the noses, what should they be labeled as if they have self colored noses? Brown noses? On red dogs I mean. I know about the point syatem and how it is carried and such, just trying to find a general way to explain it to peopel who are hard to understand. I also was told that once points have been bred out of a line they are hard to get back in? Is that true? I know Erik doesn't carry points or chocolate. He has been bred to choc/pie female, blk/cream female that produced choc puppies in two previous litters, red females that carry for choc and he has been bred to creams that carry for choc and he has ALWAYS produced black nosed reds and creams. Someone who has a son of his (I think Deb on here) says she thinks he passed this trait on to his son because he has never produced anything but reds and creams with black noses and he has been bred with other various colors as well.

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Re: My color page:)

Post  Rhodach on Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:57 am

Dappling can disappear on creams too as they mature.

Are you going to mention the major health defects that D/Dapples can have, no eyes,small eyes,totally or partially blind, totally or partially deaf all depending on where on the head the white falls. Those who deliberately breed for D/Dapple I wonder how many pups are born with defects they don't let on about or cull so no one gets to find out.

Self coloured noses are just that, they match the coat colour, the only one acceptable is choc as the others are dilutes and don't get me started on those.

You could mention that in some countries dachshunds are classed as 6 different breeds, 2 sizes in 3 coats,those countries stopped crossing coats many decades ago, here in the UK back in the 60's.

I'll have a think about anything else you may want to add.
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Re: My color page:)

Post  Admin on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:20 am

I have edit quite a bit on the issue's of the doble dapple.. I thought about going up on my post and edit'ing it to what I revised it to, just to save space, but then I thought maybe it woudl be better to leave it so anyone can read what I asked about and what I thought and the answers that were given to my questions? I will go open my website and come back and post what I revised it to..I still am needing info on the Isabella & Blue section. I need a description of what they look like, like I have on the other color sections..I am going to add the CDA into it, but I need more info about the color of them when they are born, the different colors and shades..stuff like that..I think I am goign to have to try to find a breeder that breeds for them and get an idea that way. I think my trouble is that, like Kat said earlier, no show breeders breed for them so that is why I have hit a road bloack on that section...where is Dana? Does she know about Isabella's & Blue's or does she just do the genetic aspect?

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Re: My color page:)

Post  Proud Lake Dachshunds on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:50 am

Admin wrote:I actually do have issy listed as Isabella on my site..I just shortened it in my question;) I did need to know about the 'tight' harsh coat on the wire..I will correct that and the fact that the wire has to carry long. Thanks:)
The double dapple issue, I was QUITE surprised in searching a while back to find that there are show breeders who breed for double dapples Shocked ..I kind of was thinking usiing the term 'socially acceptable' would get the point across...I may use another word like taboo instead of abomination, lol..I really can't handle hate mail right now, rofl..
As far as the noses, what should they be labeled as if they have self colored noses? Brown noses? On red dogs I mean. I know about the point syatem and how it is carried and such, just trying to find a general way to explain it to peopel who are hard to understand. I also was told that once points have been bred out of a line they are hard to get back in? Is that true? I know Erik doesn't carry points or chocolate. He has been bred to choc/pie female, blk/cream female that produced choc puppies in two previous litters, red females that carry for choc and he has been bred to creams that carry for choc and he has ALWAYS produced black nosed reds and creams. Someone who has a son of his (I think Deb on here) says she thinks he passed this trait on to his son because he has never produced anything but reds and creams with black noses and he has been bred with other various colors as well.

I call them liver nosed reds. The show people seem to have an issue with the chocolate based reds description, even though it's fairly accurate. Liver nosed reds say the same thing without the instant reaction from the show people.

It's NOT hard to get points (or chocolate) back into the line once they're bred out. Erik doesn't carry for points, but if you bred him to a pointed bitch, the resulting puppies would all carry for points. Remember that the dog only gives each puppy half of his genes. Let's use Millie as an example with Eric, just to be descriptive.

Erik is A-Y A-Y, BB (no points X 2, and Black pigment X 2) and Millie is A-T A-T, bb (points x 2, chocolate pigment x 2). Breed the two together and each puppy gets an A-Y from Eric and one B for black pigment. BOTH of those traits are dominant. Each puppy gets an A-T and a b from Millie, and those are recessive traits. All the puppies would be black nosed reds (since Millie doesn't carry for cream), because the dominant traits are what show on the puppy, and would carry for points and chocolate. Puppies would be A-Y A-T, Bb.

Does that help?

In addition to that, if you breed a red (or cream) bitch that does carry points to Erik, you'll get all red (or cream) puppies, and each puppy from that litter has a 50/50 chance of carrying points, because their dam would have both an A-Y and an A-T to give to her puppies, and either could pop up. It would be impossible to tell which are which to look at them. That's why you can breed pure for red for generations and still have black and tan puppies show up-those recessive traits can be carried for generations.

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Re: My color page:)

Post  Admin on Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:08 pm

Erik is A-Y A-Y, BB (no points X 2, and Black pigment X 2) and Millie is A-T A-T, bb (points x 2, chocolate pigment x 2). Breed the two together and each puppy gets an A-Y from Eric and one B for black pigment. BOTH of those traits are dominant. Each puppy gets an A-T and a b from Millie, and those are recessive traits. All the puppies would be black nosed reds (since Millie doesn't carry for cream), because the dominant traits are what show on the puppy, and would carry for points and chocolate. Puppies would be A-Y A-T, Bb.
No, ROFL..I am a genetic DUMMY Smile
BUT, I did get some good points on my Blue/tan and Isabella/tan section to add.
Ugh, I also noticed my spelling errors on here earlier, I think I have been online too much lately Rolling Eyes

Here is my 'revised' version. Tell me what you think. I believe I have all the color sections pretty summed up too..It is kind of long, but again I think it is better to post my new version and leave the old version in my previous post above to show and educate anyone who reads this topic;)

There are three possible coats in dachshunds.
Long, Wire & Smooth coat.
The wire coat can come in a harsh wire or even be bred in with longhair lines to produce 'silky' wires. A harsh, tight coat on a wire is the acceptable standard.
There are many colors & several patterns.
Black/tan's, Red's, Chocolate's, Blue's & Isabella's & Creams are the basic colors.
- Dapple pattern: One or both of the parents have to be dapple in order to produce a dapple pup. Double dapples can only produce dapple pups. The dapple pattern can be hidden (not visible to the eye) and is most common and mistaken in red's. The dapple pattern is NOT carried. Although some people breed dapple to dapple, it is not wise or responsible. Most often it results in Double Dapples and carries a heavy risk of dangerous and life threatening issue's. Dapple x dapple pairings do not always result in DD's, but it can and therefore IMO should never be desired or encouraged in a breeding program. DD's are usually mostly white, but not always. They often have two blue eye's as well. Some dapple's & dapple pie's are mistaken for double dapple's due to the area of white and dapple spots. For this reason, dapple pie's are not considered acceptable, although they are highly desired and commonly bred in programs.
- Brindle pattern: One or both parents have to be brindle in order to produce a brindle pup. Brindle is NOT carried. Brindle is like the dapple pattern, it also can be hidden.
- Piebald pattern: One or both of the parents either have to be a piebald or carry for it in order to produce a piebald. Typically the white & color on a piebald should be 50/50 and evenly marked. A piebald will atleast have 4 white feet & white tipped tail and usually a white patch or mark down the chest. My opinion a 'tuxedo' piebald would be most desired and standard of the correct piebald. A piebald can have what is referred to as 'ticking', or as I call them, freckles:) The 'ticking' is usually the same color as the base color of the dachshund.
- Sable's & Wildboars are basically the same pattern, but unlike the other patterns, they are specifically designated to certain coats.
- The Sable pattern for example, is only produced in the longhaired dachshunds. Sable (like dapple pie's) is one of the most commonly mismarked patterns when labeling a heavily shaded red. Most mark a heavily shaded red as a sable and commonly mark a heavy shaded red smooth as a sable as well.. Sable's are very dark, appearing almost black and tan from a distance and have a widow's peak (almost a mask appearance on the face). True sable's are very uncommon.
- Wildboar is the term used when the pattern is present in the smooth & wire coat dachshunds.

There are several different patterns that are commonly mixed.
- Dapple's x Piebald's (nicknamed Dapple pie's), Brindle's x Dapple's (nicknamed Brapple's), Dapple x Dapple (the most unacceptable and taboo in mixing patterns), Brindle x Piebald's (nicknamed Brindle Pie's) and they are probably the most acceptable patterns not frowned upon when mixing. A true piebald bred to a true piebald will produce a litter of ALL piebalds.
- Wildboar's are also mixed with various patterns as well. I think the most common pattern it is mixed with would be Piebald, resulting in Wild boar Piebald Wire's or Wild boar piebald smooth coat's, they too seem to be acceptable and not frowned upon.

As far as the coats, many mix coats as well. The most desired is the pairing of the same coat when planning your litters.
- When a longhair x longhair mating takes place, the resulting coats on the puppies in the litter will all be longhaired as well.
- When a longhair x smooth coat is bred together, you can get a mix of longhair & smooth coats if the smooth coat dachshund carries for longhair.
- When a smooth coat x smooth coat are bred together, you can still get a variety of smooth & longhaired dachshunds if either or both sides carry for longhair. The same applies to the wire hair dachshunds, depending on what each side carries for, will determine what coats the resulting litter will have.
- When a longhair x wirehair are bred together & the wire carries long, the result can be what is referred to as a 'silky' wire. This is the most taboo & unacceptable of all coats, but surprisingly desired amongst pet owners & intentionally bred amongst breeders.
- Silky wire dachshunds & Double dapple dachshunds are considered 'taboo' in the dachshund world amongst any breeder/show breeder who strives to produce the best possible dachshunds, true to the standard.
In breeding and studying your lines, you are expected to plan litters and learn about the traits and ancestors of the dogs your using or planning on using in your program & breed responsibly. Intentionally introducing a 'silky' coat into your lines or specifically breeding for double dapples and 'silky' coat wires is offensive to those who have worked hard for many years to produce the best possible dachshunds that they can. They are not true to the dachshund standard and are considered a disgrace by most.. Double dapple's are not only considered taboo, but irresponsible breeding due to the dangerous & sometimes fatal outcome of most all of the litters intentionally produced. Blindness & deafness are some of the more severe cases that can arise, potentially more serious cases are those that end in fatalities. I would imagine there are probably more pups born with deformities than what a breeder of DD's would admit.

There are also three different sizes in dachshunds too. Only two are recognized (miniature & standard)
- Miniature dachshunds are typically under 11 lbs.
- Standard dachshunds are typically 16 lbs and up.
- The dachshunds that fall in between these two sizes are what most commonly is referred to as 'tweenie's'.
I suppose the different colors and mixing of patterns can be endless and many breeders mix and match without hesitation. It is always best to try to maintain the best structure and strive to produce the best quality of the dachshund standard and stick with the basics in your colors and patterns until you are more knowledgeable about the dachshund breed.
Here are a few of the various colors and patterns in the dachshund world. Enjoy:)

Black & Tan's/creams & Solids:
- The Black and tan smooth coat dachshund is probably the most recognized color in the dachshund world, next being the smooth red.
- Pigment should be nice and dark on nails, nose and eyeliner. Eye's should be dark brown.
- Eye's should be dark, sometimes they are blue in dapples.
- Colors can range from black & tan, black & cream and solid black.
- Pointed black & tan's should have nice defined bright tan points. Usually they are on eyebrows, feet & under tail. Sometimes they are on or around rib cage from legs in front & rear, jawline & cheeks. The area of tan can vary depending on the dog.
- The black & cream dachshunds are same as the black & tan's only the tan points should be bright cream (remember both sides have to carry or be cream to produce a cream dachshund) tan points can vary in shades. Light tan doesn't necessarily mean 'cream'. Again, it depends on the lines behind the sire & dam of the dog in question.
- Sometimes points are darker than an average tan, they are referred to as 'muddy' points.
- Brindle pattern in blk/tans & blk/creams will show up on the points.
- Solid blacks do not have points, but they can be piebald or even brindle or dapple & sometimes the brindle & dapple can be 'hidden' (unseen to the naked eye)
- Two pointed (for example: black & tans) can only produce pointed offspring unless they both carry for the 'e' gene. If they carry for cream, chocolate, or dilute, you could get variations of any of those colors as well, but all would be pointed unless they are 'ee' red pups.
- An explaination between the difference between 'ee' and 'EE' is in the red section below:)
- Black & tan dapple's usually have 'silvery' patches of hair mixed in with the black. A lot of times a breeder will refer to them as a, 'silver dapple'. They are just black & tan dapples.

Red's & Shaded red's:
- Red smooth coat is right alongside the black & tan smooth coat as one of the most recognized dachshund color/coat combo.
- Red is a very dominant color.
- Ideally a red dachshund should have a dark black nose, nails and eyeliner with brown eye's.
- Sometimes a brown dilution gene can be present & cause the eyes to be hazel (greenish to brown color), and the noses and nails to be brown or liver-colored. They are correctly called red dilutes, who may or may not carry the chocolate gene. Most often a breeder refers to them as 'Chocolate based red's'.
- Red dachshunds can have heavy shading, they are reds, NOT sables. True sables are only found in longhaired dachshunds and have atleast one sable parent. They can appear black and tan from a distance and the hairs are 'banded' from the root Banded meaning the hairs on the body will be self colored at the root and black at the tip (except on face & feet)
- It is very common for reds to be born with points. They will fade over time. Remember that black nose means red, so if points are apparent at birth & a black nose is also apparent, the points will fade and the dachshund should be labeled as a red NOT chocolate.
- Red's are very common in red x cream matings & are commonly mistaked for being a cream. Just remember both sides have to carry for cream & the pup in question should not have any red hint or hue whatsoever on their coat to be labeled as a cream.
- Red dapple's (along with sables) are one of the most commonly mismarked because sometimes the dapple fades or dissapears alltogether. It is important to check the puppy over good and mark the puppy as a dapple when the pup is born if you notice it has any spots, especially if one of the parents is a dapple. It should be marked as such for reference in the future if the dog in question is going to be used for breeding so not to have any accidents with dapple x dapple breedings. If you have a mixing of patterns with dapple being one, always list dapple over the other pattern.
- The colors of a red dachshund can vary in range from a dark red to an almost 'yellow' or brownish red color.
- 'The term 'EE' just means that the dachshund carries a dominant trait that allows all colors & patterns to show that the dog was born with, regardless of the color of the dog in question.
- The term 'ee' just means that all the color on the dog (except cream & red) in simpliest terms, is basically invisible, this applies to any of the patterns that the dog may have been born with as well, with the exception of the piebald gene.
- It is possible to get a self colored nose (brownish color) out of two black nosed parents IF one of the parents
doesn't have points or if both dogs carry for the 'e' gene. For example, a black & tan bred to a black nosed red
that carries for chocolate or a black nosed dog bred to a solid dog (dog with no points).
- Since red's don't have points, red brindle's will have black 'tiger or zebra' like stripes over the body in varying amounts. Again, one of the
parent's must be brindle in order for a pup in a litter to be brindle.
- I have used the term 'chocolate based red' when describing the self-colored noses on the red's on this page,
as that is how the breeders specifically marked them. They are correctly called red dilute's.

Chocolate and Tan's/cream's and Solid's:
- Chocolate & tan's have the same marking's like the black & tan's do only the body color should be a dark rich chocolate color.
- The eye's of a chocolate should be dark but sometimes a hazel/green color is present.
- Chocolate/tan's, Chocolate/cream's and Solid Chocolate's have chocolate/liver colored noses & nails & chocolate coats, there should not be any red tint or hue whatsoever to their coats.
- Dachshunds with a red coat that have self colored noses are considered red dilute's (commonly referred to as Chocolate based red's) but still they should be labeled as reds NOT chocolates.
- Both parents either have to BE or carry for chocolate to produce a chocolate offspring. Chocolate is a color that is carried by both sides of the sire & dam's lines and can only be produced when both carry for the color or are in fact chocolate themselves.
- A chocolate dachshund bred to a chocolate carrier can produce chocolates, in red's that carry for chocolate it is possible to get self colored noses when bred with another chocolate carrier. They will have a red coat instead of chocolate and will have self colored noses (a brownish color) instead of black (see above reference to REDS)
- One parent has to be a solid color to produce a solid offspring.
- Two chocolate/liver nosed or chocolate dachshunds bred together will result in a litter of ALL chocolate/liver nosed colored dachshunds. It is IMPOSSIBLE to get a black nosed pup out of a chocolate sire and dam pairing.
- Chocolate dachshunds do NOT have black noses.
- It is common for chocolate coated dachshunds to loose the chocolate shading in the sunlight, leaving the coat with a red/rusty dull appearance.
- Since a chocolate & tan dachshund doesn't have black pigment, the brindle pattern will be apparent in the tan points just like the black & tan and the brindle will be brown in color.

Isabella & tan's and Blue & tan's and Solid's:
- Blue & tan is basically the diluted version of a black & tan.
- Isabella & tan is basically the diluted version of a chocolate & tan.
- In Blue & Tan dachshunds, the coat is a blue/grayish color and nose & nails are also of a grayish color. The eye's most often are a darker gray color as well.
- Blue & tan dachshunds are prone to a disorder known as Color Dilution Alopecia (or CDA). This means that the coat will thin out and shed, often times leaving the dog with bald spots or no hair at all. CDA is tricky in that in most cases it doesn't appear until later stages in the dachshunds life, most often around 2-3 years of age or even quite a bit later around the age of 5 or so.
- Blue & tan's are more prone and subject to allergies.
- Isabella & tan's coat color is usually that of a fawn color. Tan markings in Isabella's are usually really light or pale color.
- Isabella & tan's eye color is usually a grayish or green color. Nose and nails can range form a light pink to a light chocolate color.
- Isabella & tan's also are prone to the CDA disorder (see above reference to Blue/tan's).
- Both Blue & tan's and Isabella & tan's have to be present on both side's of the sire & dam's lines to be produced in a litter.

Wildboar & Sable's:
- Although Wildboar & Sable are patterns (IMO), I choose to have a seperate section for them because they are so frequently mismarked. It is debatable amongst many breeders that they are in fact colors, not patterns.
- Wildboar is only represented in the wirecoat & smooth coat dachshunds.
- Sable is basically the same as wildboar (IMO) but it is found & only represented in the longhaired dachshunds.
- One or both parents have to be a wildboar or sable for a wildboar or sable offspring to occur, with that being said, it is common (IMO) to find wildboar in wire coats on occassion when neither parent is a wildboar. This could mean that there is a such term as 'hidden' wildboar.
- Smooth coat dachshunds cannot be SABLE and are marked incorrectly when they are labeled as such.
- The hairs on the body of wildboars & sable's appear to be 'banded' with a couple different colors. Usually the base of the hair is self colored and gets darker to the tip of the hair (usually blackish color).
- I have found that the most common wildboar & sable's appear to be in the color red.

Creams & Shaded creams:
- Creams & shaded creams do not have any red hint or red hue whatsoever to their coats. If any red is apparent at all, the dachshund in question should be labeled as a red.
- Both parents of creams should either be cream themselves or carry for cream to produce a cream offspring.
- TRUE creams are born a dark husky gray or can appear black at birth and will lighten as they age. They may still have shading, but the points will get lighter with age.
- Dachshunds labeled 'chocolate based creams', have a brownish colored nose with a cream coat.
- Dachshunds labeled 'chocolate shaded creams', have a brownish colored nose as well, but have a chocolate shaded hue or chocolate tint to their coats.
- Creams with dark black pigment on nose, nails, whisker's and eyeliner is the correct representation of the cream dachshund standard.
- A true cream dachshund will have British (UK) lines within their 5 generation pedigree.
- A lot of times a breeder will mark a puppy as a cream when in fact it's an e-red. Over time the coat on such a puppy will darken to a dark yellow or even a light redish/orangish color.
- True creams are a pale buff color, they can have black hair's (shading). Most often it is on the tips of the ears, tail or even down the back of the dachshund.
- Cream dapple's are tricky (like red dapple's) because most often the dapple will fade over time.

Now, let me know what you think and if I need to correct anything or add anything:)

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Re: My color page:)

Post  Admin on Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:39 pm

Should I correct the part about a 'true' cream will have British (UK) lines withint the five generation pedigree, to a 'true' cream's lines can be traced to UK? Do you think it is worded right? I know they have been bred for a while here and the more they are bred the further back the UK lines may go, but if you were sticking with the same lines or UK lines, wouldn't you always have UK lines in your 5 generation pedigree? Just curious:)

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Re: My color page:)

Post  Rhodach on Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:48 pm

The 5 generation thing used to apply but now I would put they should be directly traceable back to those first UK cream dachsies of the 80's.

To continue calling them UK lines when bred elsewhere then they have to be pure UK blood,not mixed with other lines in those countries as has happened in most cases.
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Re: My color page:)

Post  Bright Star on Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:04 pm

Admin wrote:I actually do have issy listed as Isabella on my site..I just shortened it in my question;) I did need to know about the 'tight' harsh coat on the wire..I will correct that and the fact that the wire has to carry long. Thanks:)
The double dapple issue, I was QUITE surprised in searching a while back to find that there are show breeders who breed for double dapples Shocked ..I kind of was thinking usiing the term 'socially acceptable' would get the point across...I may use another word like taboo instead of abomination, lol..I really can't handle hate mail right now, rofl..
As far as the noses, what should they be labeled as if they have self colored noses? Brown noses? On red dogs I mean. I know about the point syatem and how it is carried and such, just trying to find a general way to explain it to peopel who are hard to understand. I also was told that once points have been bred out of a line they are hard to get back in? Is that true? I know Erik doesn't carry points or chocolate. He has been bred to choc/pie female, blk/cream female that produced choc puppies in two previous litters, red females that carry for choc and he has been bred to creams that carry for choc and he has ALWAYS produced black nosed reds and creams. Someone who has a son of his (I think Deb on here) says she thinks he passed this trait on to his son because he has never produced anything but reds and creams with black noses and he has been bred with other various colors as well.

Jenn,

It is Stetson that is Erik's son that also does not carry points. I was able to figure out that the trait comes down from Waterworld who never produced a pointed dog regardless of what he was bred to. My friend, Sherry Pledger (retired Sugarland Dachshunds) has a son of Waterworld, Butterscotch (1/2 brother to Erik) that is now 10 years old and also never produced a puppy with points. Another friend of mine has Erik's full brother, Max, that also does not throw points. If I did not know this, you and I looking at Erik and Stetson's pedigrees could have never figured out where the trait came from because the pedigrees are all creams. I am getting ready to breed Stetson to my beautiful black and cream, Daisy, but will have a full litter of solid creams. The puppies will carry points because they will be 1/2 pointed meaning they could produce points when bred to one Very Happy

Deb
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Re: My color page:)

Post  Admin on Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:26 pm

Yeah..I actually LOVE this trait myself. The pigment has always been the darkest and I much prefer that to the lighter or lack of pigment in most dogs you see. I may not get anything but creams and reds, but they sure have wonderful dark noses, eyeliner and nails Wink Chloe & Quinn here to the side are two examples:)

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Re: My color page:)

Post  Bright Star on Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:32 pm

Admin wrote:Yeah..I actually LOVE this trait myself. The pigment has always been the darkest and I much prefer that to the lighter or lack of pigment in most dogs you see. I may not get anything but creams and reds, but they sure have wonderful dark noses, eyeliner and nails Wink Chloe & Quinn here to the side are two examples:)

Stetson has Erik's pigmentation too. But, we can still get chocolate noses if we breed them ot a bitch that is or carries chocolate. Beautiful chocolate noses like CH Liam though Smile
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Re: My color page:)

Post  Admin on Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:36 pm

by Bright Star on Sun 12 Feb 2012 - 18:32

Admin wrote:
Yeah..I actually LOVE this trait myself. The pigment has always been the darkest and I much prefer that to the lighter or lack of pigment in most dogs you see. I may not get anything but creams and reds, but they sure have wonderful dark noses, eyeliner and nails Chloe & Quinn here to the side are two examples:)

Stetson has Erik's pigmentation too. But, we can still get chocolate noses if we breed them ot a bitch that is or carries chocolate. Beautiful chocolate noses like CH Liam though

How do you get liver colored noses? Does he carry choc from his momma?
Erik has never produced anything but reds and cream with black noses no matter what he has been bred to.

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Re: My color page:)

Post  Bright Star on Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:45 pm

[quote="Admin"]
by Bright Star on Sun 12 Feb 2012 - 18:32

Admin wrote:
Yeah..I actually LOVE this trait myself. The pigment has always been the darkest and I much prefer that to the lighter or lack of pigment in most dogs you see. I may not get anything but creams and reds, but they sure have wonderful dark noses, eyeliner and nails Chloe & Quinn here to the side are two examples:)

Stetson has Erik's pigmentation too. But, we can still get chocolate noses if we breed them ot a bitch that is or carries chocolate. Beautiful chocolate noses like CH Liam though

How do you get liver colored noses? Does he carry choc from his momma?
Erik has never produced anything but reds and cream with black noses no matter what he has been bred to.
[/quote

No, I haven't had any. Just saying it could happen. Daisy is 1/2 black/cream and 1/2 chocolate/cream that I am getting ready to breed him to. If Daisy passes on her chocolate, nose will be chocolate is all I meant.
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Re: My color page:)

Post  Admin on Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:56 pm

If Stetson doesn't carry chocolate how can you get cho colored noses? the pups may carry chocolate from the dam's side, but all the noses should be black shouldn't they?
Here is what I have bred Erik to:
-Chocolate pie (Libby) and got all reds with dark black noses
-Black/cream (Ebony) that has had chocolates in two previous litters, and I got all shaded creams w/black noses
-Shaded red (my Emmie) and her sire is Liam, she carries chocolate and I got all shaded creams w/black noses and black nose reds
-Red female that has had a litter with chocolates (Libby) and I got all reds and creams with black noses (chloe & Quinn litter)
-Ruth bred him with females that carry choc as well and only got black nosed reds and creams too:)

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Re: My color page:)

Post  Bright Star on Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:39 pm

Admin wrote:If Stetson doesn't carry chocolate how can you get cho colored noses? the pups may carry chocolate from the dam's side, but all the noses should be black shouldn't they?
Here is what I have bred Erik to:
-Chocolate pie (Libby) and got all reds with dark black noses
-Black/cream (Ebony) that has had chocolates in two previous litters, and I got all shaded creams w/black noses
-Shaded red (my Emmie) and her sire is Liam, she carries chocolate and I got all shaded creams w/black noses and black nose reds
-Red female that has had a litter with chocolates (Libby) and I got all reds and creams with black noses (chloe & Quinn litter)
-Ruth bred him with females that carry choc as well and only got black nosed reds and creams too:)

The base coat, or color of the pigmentaion, eye rims, nose, mouth, nails, whiskers, eyebrows are a separate gene from the coat color. There are only 2 base coats, B-Blake and b_ Brown/chocolate in oou breed. There is a gene modifier calle D-dilute that turns these two colors to grey and isabella. All dogs have one of these 4 base coat colors/I am trying to be simplistic here for your site unles they are "ee" which would make them self-colored amd the black or broen/chcolate would not show Very Happy

These 4 colors have are separate fom the coat colors. A perfect example is CH Lian is why I mentioned him earlier. He is a chocoalte by base coat, but a red by coat color Smile

You can not have a black base on a chocolate dog or a black pointed dog,
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Re: My color page:)

Post  Admin on Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:10 pm

I always assumed Liam got his liver colored nose from his sire and dam's lines (chocolate) I naturally assumed both sides carried chocolate somewhere. I have never bred or even seen a dog produced (we'll just say cho based red) that both sides didn't have chocolate somewhere. Even in creams, anytime I ever saw a brown nose was when the dam and sire both had chocolate on both sides. I have always been taught it had to be on both sides to produce a liver colored nose scratch With Liam, I bred him to several females that didn't carry chocolate and I got black noses, two females that did carry chocolate and still got black nose reds of course I know that was just pure luck:) I don't understand the whole genetic area Rolling Eyes it is toooooo confusing! LOL..I know I haven't ever produced a self colored/liver colored nose unless chocolate was present somewhere on both sides though.

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Re: My color page:)

Post  Proud Lake Dachshunds on Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:15 pm

Admin wrote:I always assumed Liam got his liver colored nose from his sire and dam's lines (chocolate) I naturally assumed both sides carried chocolate somewhere. I have never bred or even seen a dog produced (we'll just say cho based red) that both sides didn't have chocolate somewhere. Even in creams, anytime I ever saw a brown nose was when the dam and sire both had chocolate on both sides. I have always been taught it had to be on both sides to produce a liver colored nose scratch With Liam, I bred him to several females that didn't carry chocolate and I got black noses, two females that did carry chocolate and still got black nose reds of course I know that was just pure luck:) I don't understand the whole genetic area Rolling Eyes it is toooooo confusing! LOL..I know I haven't ever produced a self colored/liver colored nose unless chocolate was present somewhere on both sides though.

You are correct. The liver nose is bb, which is chocolate. Liam is a chocolate dog that only has one or no copies of the gene for points, meaning that the only place he has chocolate in his coat is in any shading. Liam, bred to a chocolate/tan bitch will produce ONLY chocolate/tan and liver nosed reds. He has no copy of B (dominant black) or he would have a black nose.
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Re: My color page:)

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