Cross-Coating & Coat Textures

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Cross-Coating & Coat Textures

Post  DandeLion on Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:59 pm

I want to pick your brains as to whether you think cross coating (smooth to wire) actually improves a wire coat. There is an interesting
blog, Born to Track News and Views, http://borntotracknews.blogspot.com/search/label/coat%20varieties that talks about wire coat varieties. I personally wouldn't cross coat but if a smooth occurred in a wire to wire breeding then I would think that pup could be bred to a wire with profuse furnishings to improve the coat. I have a wooly wire and wouldn't want another, so much work! I have seen so many differences in coat textures and was wondering why this is? My pup, Bo has a fantastic coat and is so much easier to deal with. Claire, I know you get both, hairy and harsh coats in litters, have at it! Very Happy

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Re: Cross-Coating & Coat Textures

Post  Tinsnips2 on Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:14 am

wow :: interesting article !! Yes I have had variations of coats within a litter including smooth :: so far any smooth pups have been sold as pets :: BUT if I had the room and if they were anatomically correct ( I havent really had an outstanding one ) I would keep it and breed with it to see what happened. I have found that they crop up unexpectedly : also despite having two harsh coated parent wires you can get a variation in the litter : I have never bred soft coat to soft coat :: in fact the soft coats are usually sold off as pets but the No 2 coats : (meaning double coated wires with more furnishings ) have been kept by me for breeding at times: I have a bitch called Hannah who is probably the worst coated I have had (consequently the only one never shown) I kept her though and she will be put to either Pate or Strop eventually to see what I get : if something is better than her she is going to be placed out as she really has the most soft nature and would make a great pet. (I have found soft coats : soft gentle natures generally) We have such a small gene pool here : and I dont have the room to experiment too much but I am going to bookmark that site and keep an eye on it: I do think that breeding correct to correct is the way to go : but it has been interesting with the coats I have got from Pate who has a very very thick but harsh body coat but softish furnishings : he has had 4 litters : 2 to Puddles who has an excellent coat and she has produced one recessive smooth : a majority of good coats (harsh and little furnishings) and a couple of hairier ones (Jelli for example) Puddles daughter Turtle has produced a variation (her coat is harsh to the body but she has leg and beard furnishings with a reasonable texture ) Dolli got slightly softer furnishings with a thicker body coat like her dad ; and then you get the other end of the scale : Terra and Raffy with fantastic coats ! Tis all the luck of the drawer in a way but personally the better coated they are the more appealing they are to breed from : getting soft coats is such a bummer !
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Re: Cross-Coating & Coat Textures

Post  Rhodach on Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:34 am

Fairly recently a breeder approached the KC for permission to breed a wire to a smooth to improve the wire coats[mixing coats has been banned since 60's] it was refused as it was felt there were enough correct wire coats out there to not require this step.

I have heard of the occassional smooth turning up in longhaired litter even after all this time, they can't be registered so I have been led to believe. Even longhaired pups can vary alot,some get their full coat very early and others can take a year or two to get what is deemed correct for the breed.

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Re: Cross-Coating & Coat Textures

Post  Tinsnips2 on Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:55 am

Rhodach wrote:Fairly recently a breeder approached the KC for permission to breed a wire to a smooth to improve the wire coats[mixing coats has been banned since 60's] it was refused as it was felt there were enough correct wire coats out there to not require this step.

I have heard of the occassional smooth turning up in longhaired litter even after all this time, they can't be registered so I have been led to believe. Even longhaired pups can vary alot,some get their full coat very early and others can take a year or two to get what is deemed correct for the breed.


In a way I glad it was refused because it is not the coat that should be the reason for crosscoating : having a very small gene pool here I would like to cross coat to get some dachshund TYPE into the wires : so many of them are more terrier type than dachshund:: I hate the wind up toys that are passed off as wires !
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Re: Cross-Coating & Coat Textures

Post  Neuenrade on Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:26 am

[quote="Tinsnips2"]
Rhodach wrote:I have heard of the occassional smooth turning up in longhaired litter even after all this time, they can't be registered so I have been led to believe. Even longhaired pups can vary alot,some get their full coat very early and others can take a year or two to get what is deemed correct for the breed.


I would question the smooth turning up a longhaired litter......apparently does not happen but who knows. Longhaired from smooth does happen though. Here in Canada we cannot cross coats either but the CKC recognizes that with American bloodlines there can be some recessive coats. This is what they will accept;
Smooth to Smooth = Smooth or Long
Long to Long = Only Long
Wire to Wire = Wire, Smooth or Long.

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Re: Cross-Coating & Coat Textures

Post  DandeLion on Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:58 pm

Claire, could you expand on your reference to "terrier type". Some do say they are terriers and have only been bred to resemble hounds. Smile

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Re: Cross-Coating & Coat Textures

Post  Tinsnips2 on Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:22 pm

DandeLion wrote:Claire, could you expand on your reference to "terrier type". Some do say they are terriers and have only been bred to resemble hounds. Smile

HMM ok hard to explain since I cant use pics that are not mine :: but :: imagine say a Norwich terrier :: short body straighter front and rear:rounder skull : quite a few wires tend to lean towards that look : they move more busily: are more terrier or toyish in appearance. I hate to say it but USA tends to have more of this style in the ring than I have noticed anywhere else :: probably due to the fact there was one prevalent red sire that everyone seemed to breed down from. I call them wind up toys! If you took the coat off them and stood them next to a typey smooth you would understand what I mean : I try to breed with a dachshund in miniature picture in my head:: the terrier type doesnt cut it !
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Re: Cross-Coating & Coat Textures

Post  GrandRiverDachs on Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:26 pm

This is interesting! I didn't realize they had a test out yet for wire or what they are calling "furnishings". Thanks for sharing! I was looking at vetgen website... I wonder how many wires would have the "curly" gene.
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Re: Cross-Coating & Coat Textures

Post  Bright Star on Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:13 pm

Hi All,

I just wanted to say how much I appreciate this new forum. This post is a perfect example of learning and teaching. I know absolutely nothing about wires. This is a great thread to learn about them. Thanks for sharing the info Very Happy

Deb
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Re: Cross-Coating & Coat Textures

Post  Dandy Dachs on Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:45 pm

I don't have wires but I love to read all of the genetic
stuff and learn all I can. Very interresting article.
Thanks for sharing!!
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Re: Cross-Coating & Coat Textures

Post  GrandRiverDachs on Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:15 pm

In addition to Vetgen, DDC also has the test for coat length/texture.
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